Shomer Negiah is a woman’s choice. 100%. The guy should have
no say in the matter.
Obviously he can say “No”, but it shouldn’t be up to him about
when to approach that line and what is physically done.
Think about it. Everything that it entails has her doing
something, and him not doing much at all. And because it is tilted so much
towards her, HE SHOULD NOT HAVE A SAY IN IT! Every guy should be Shomer Negiah
until she says it’s okay not to be.
Kissing, one of the simplest things covered, is probably the
most simple of all, where they both give an equal amount up.
Hugging, not as simple. While you are both giving equal
again, his hand placement during a hug can be a lot more awkward for her, with
again, her giving up more.
We won’t go into more detail here, about other acts, but in
all cases, SHE gives up a LOT MORE than he does. The man simply has to show up,
and do whatever it is she’d like. Yes he may enjoy it all just as much as she
does…but it should not be his decision.
Boy: May I hold your hand?
Girl: No thanks, it isn't heavy.
Boy: May I hold your hand?
Girl: No thanks, it isn't heavy.
Im sort of not understanding the point of the post...
ReplyDeleteIt's a statement to both guys and girls.
DeleteTo guys: Lay off until she is ready.
To girls: Don't ask a guy if he is Shomer. He is Shomer (or should be), until you say otherwise.
Ok...
DeleteCorrection: He is Shomer (or should be) PERIOD. Not 'until you say otherwise'. Sure, you can say otherwise, but that doesn't make it suddenly right. It's still wrong, halachically.
DeleteI dunno... that sounds kinda off... guys also give up. And with them, not only do they kiss the girl but they also start feeling desire and may sin because of it (by spilling seed). Whereas a girl will break shomer but she may be content with just a kiss.
ReplyDeleteLet's put it this way. Any guy who would (as you put it) "spill his seed" with a girl, is doing it anyways on his own time. No guy is only doing it if it's with a girl.
DeleteYes well...I get your point. the girl does give up more... Problem is - girls always expect the guy to make the first move.
DeleteWell, that's half the posts point...for girls to realize that it shouldn't always be the guy initiating everything. It just doesn't work correctly that way.
Delete"Shomer Negiah is a woman’s choice. 100%."
ReplyDeleteI thought you were getting at something else, that whether the couple stays shomer really is up to her. If she is on the fence/willing to break it then he will break it that much sooner, and if she is strong then it will be harder for him to make a move.
Which brings us back to, חכמת נשים בנתה ביתה, ואולת בידיה תהרסנה. The power of a woman's touch :)
I don't get it - when I click on 'the shomer toucher' it says under 'blogs' wondering minds. Does this mean that wondering minds and 'the shomer toucher' is the same person?
ReplyDeleteNo, we are indeed two separate people.
DeleteThe Shomer Toucher is a contributing editor on this blog, hence why it is listed as her blog as well.
Interesting. I can hear where you're coming from... and it does make some sense. I think in general, this sounds more like a rule in the secular dating world, wherein guys need to not be touchy-feely without permission. I'm not sure I'd advocate any permissiveness in touching in the frum dating world, though. Still, guys DO need to be more in control of themselves.
ReplyDeleteDon't get me wrong, I am not advocating touching in Orthodox relationships. But as we all know, either from experience, or we've seen friends go through it, as a relationship goes on, the level of Shomer Negiah between the two disintegrates.
DeleteI just think that it should be the woman's choice, and she has to know that as much has he does.
The rule "women control the gates of sex, men control the gates of commitment" is relevant here.
DeleteVery much so.
Delete